A few days after the successful launch of Kiefer’s Carb Shock supplement, he held a live, online webinar on insulin timing tricks followed by a Q&A session. In the webinar he discusses the optimal ways to use Carb Shock with either Carb Nite AND Carb Back-Loading, and provides a lot of clues as to what the upcoming Carb Back-Loading 2.0 will contain.
Here are the notes from the secret Q&A Body IO Podcast he released prior to the launch of Carb Shock and the notes from Parts 1 and 2 of this series:
If you’re reading through this and want more information about Carb Nite and Carb Back-Loading, here are some helpful posts I’ve written on the subjects:
- Carb Back-Loading Pearls and Criticisms
- More Carb Nite and Carb Back-Loading Tips
- More Carb Nite and Carb Back-Loading Tips Part 2
- More Carb Nite and Carb Back-Loading Tips Part 3
- More Carb Nite and Carb Back-Loading Tips Part 4
If you’d like to read more about my own experiences with both Carb Nite and Carb Back-loading including the various blood tests I’ve had done you can go here for Carb Nite and here for Carb Back-loading.
Because this session was almost 2 hrs long, I’m going to break it up into a few parts.
Carb Shock Notes from Kiefer’s Insulin Timing Tricks Webinar Part 3
If someone is doing 5 workouts per week with the deep water method which is a German volume training, Kiefer is good friends with John Anderson, with Carb Nite Solution, is this a recipe for disaster?
Deep water is an intense training protocol, but is not necessarily a recipe for disaster, and Carb Nite is an excellent way to do it. This ties into Dr. Volek’s research and Ben Greenfields experiments. When you’re training with those kinds of intensities and volumes in a low carb state, you actually get a significant amount of mitochondrial biogenesis, which allows you to work harder, longer, and stay oxidative for a much longer time.
Of course, this is related to thyroid function as well. The Carb Nites will provide some extra glycogen reserves, without affecting the positive benefits of the training.
You will initially see some hypertrophy, but it will stop, and you will plateau on this system, but this is one of the things that he will touch on in CBL 2.0 which will have some training information in it.
This is a perfect way to cycle that type of training with a more classic hypertrophy type of training. The deep water method is an excellent protocol to give you greater strength endurance and make you more oxidative, but to reach the next level of performance, having that type of strength endurance is not enough. You need to accumulate more muscle mass.
Instead of being a formula for disaster, this is a great thing to cycle into your training, and have the increase in mitochondrial biogenesis, and from there when you switch to a hypertrophy routine, you will get better gains than you could’ve had, because pure hypertrophy training, it turns out, actually lowers muscle mitochondrial content.
This is interesting because the maximal size that your muscle can obtain is directly related to how many mitochondria you have, the mitochondrial density.
So if you do pure hypertrophy training all the time, you’re limiting your gain. At the same time, if you’re doing exercise that increases mitochondrial density, it makes your muscle fiber slightly smaller. So you need to cycle the two, and John Anderson’s Deep Water method is an excellent adjunct for pure hypertrophy training.
I’m having trouble getting back into ketosis with my Carb Nite, can you clarify if ketosis is important for fat loss?
Ketosis is not essential for fat loss. There are many benefits of having high ketone levels, but you are ketogenic every night. You wake up ketogenic. For fat loss, the most critical component is keeping blood sugar levels down, and also making sure that we precisely control insulin surges. We can do this with Carb Shock and by having carbs once a week.
It’s all about being ultra low carb.
Ketone levels do not correlate with the amount of fat loss. There’s been this hyperfocus on ketones lately, and it’s been confusing people and causing a lot of undue stress, especially in people who don’t see their ketone levels go back up during Carb Nite.
Are GLUT 4 and 12 stimulated only by resistance training or with cardio?
It depends on the type of cardio. Cardio can increase GLUT 4 content under the right conditions. But it increases the content, but not necessarily expressed or mobilized, as would be expected with insulin.
Cardio is not the best way. A combination would work, but strength and resistance training is the best avenue to get noninsulin mediated GLUT 4 translocation.
Cardio isn’t completely useless, but you need to do it in the right way and right time (Unfortunately he doesn’t go into what these are).
Do circadian rhythms depend on the time of year? Is there an optimal time for CBL and would it better in the summer vs winter?
There are shifts in circadian rhythms throughout the year but the main ones we’re focused on are pretty consistent through the year. They can fluctuate because of daylight hours and amount of sun exposure, but the general structure is the same.
There is high cortisol in the morning and low cortisol in the evening. Insulin resistance is higher in the night. Assuming you are healthy and not diabetic, insulin sensitivity is up in the morning and low in the night. These stay pretty consistent.
Men have a testosterone surge in the winter. A possible evolutionary explanation is that you can conceive in the winter time and deliver in the summer months, which is when the infant will have a better chance of survival.
Would T3 Fuel have any effect on Hashimoto’s disease?
They’re looking to experiment on this. Rocky and him have discussed this, he would expect this to be a large advantage in a big population of people. They have noticed Hashimoto’s symptoms have subsided on a Carb Nite diet.
Still not enough data, needs more testing, but all markers suggest that T3 Fuel would likely be beneficial.
If I train 4 times a week, would I be better served using Carb Nite vs Carb Back-Loading template in conjunction with use of Carb Shock?
This really depends on goals. If your goal is to completely get rid of body fat, then Carb Nite + Carb Shock is better. If your goal is to completely get rid of body fat while increasing muscle mass or strength, then will be better served with Carb Back-Loading and Carb Shock.
There’s a fine line between how you want to mix Carb Nite and Carb Back-loading so that you can tweak these protocols to your specific needs… which he will go into in Carb Back-Loading 2.0.
Carb shock with Carb Nite would be a very powerful combination to use to get excellent performance, strength gains, while really focusing on losing body fat. If this is your goal, then this is an excellent way to use Carb Shock (I’m not sure if he meant Carb Back-Loading or CNS here, would make more sense if he meant Carb Back-Loading).
Is the dextrose in splenda in my morning coffee something to worry bout?
As you accumulate more muscle mass, the dextrose in your splenda is less and less concern. If you’re having it with heavy amounts of fat in your coffee, it’s a lower and lower concern, because you don’t get a large influx of glucose at the same time you’re getting the insulin from splenda to worry about large insulin excursions. The insulin excursions you might get will be minimal without the carbs to back it up.
The amount of dextrose is not extreme unless you’re mixing the entire box of splenda in your coffee… which would mean you probably have underlying psychological issues.
If you hit a plateau, then it may be something you want to address, but 99 times out of 100, it makes no difference.
Will T3 Fuel ultimately help me get off of thyroid meds?
It depends on the type of thyroid issue you have. He can’t give medical advice, but he can only say that there is a potential that it could help.
Rocky Patel is taking on people to consult in these scenarios through Body IO which can be a resource.
How does nicotine fit in with the new Carb Shock protocols?
Like it always does. Nicotine is fantastic because it activates MTOR and can be used really well with fat burning which is its main purpose. It does have a sight anabolic component, but more specifically it targets receptors in fat cells that allow them to release fat independent of the adrenaline pathways.
So even if you might have some adrenaline insensitivity, what a lot of people like to term adrenal fatigue, then nicotine can help you to continue mobilize body fat in those scenarios.
He wants to heavily stress the limited use of nicotine because you could potentially take too much and cause problems.
He goes over more of this in Nicotine Declassified.
Carb Shock to different countries?
They’re working on that. One possibility is re-shippers who will send the orders for you to other countries.
Trying to work with formularies in other countries to get the products produced there.
Chronoshifting for first responders, firemen, who are awake periodically throughout the night, does it mess with circadian rhythms? Do they have growth hormone spikes throughout the evening?
Chronoshifts and chronodisruptions are actually pretty intense and more difficult to correct. Insulin is very powerful and can actually reset certain hormonal rhythms of introduced at the right times.
If you can be truly chronoshifted, you can reset how your hormones act according to when you eat your carbs.
Assuming people who are on a normal schedule, we are resetting hormone levels by having people eat their carbs at night, which produces increases in adiponectin and increases leptin during the day, and corrects ghrelin deviation which is important in hunger management and fat loss.
So if your day is shifted, and your night is in the morning, you can use Carb Back-loading to reset your hormones to match your sleep schedule.
It’s not going to be perfect, but people have been able to get past plateaus, and reset their hormones to a more natural state based on their sleeping state.
Now for firemen, which he and Rocky have worked with, this is more complex scenario, and one thing working against you is constantly elevated levels of cortisol. In this scenario, best bet is Carb Nite. Cortisol is a positive hormone in the absence of carbs. We derail cortisols benefits by producing insulin spikes at inappropriate times or all the time, which turns cortisol negative.
What’s difficult is when it’s go time, and you need to go into a fire, you really need to make sure your diet is heavily fat balanced. You cannot operate as a fireman if you’re going to try to be ultra low carb and also low fat. People who have tried this have experienced light headedness and inability to function.
You can do temperature acclimation training to try to mitigate this, but you will need a constant supply of fat.
First responders have their first major coronary event by the time they’re 35. The average US citizen doesn’t have their first major coronary event by the time they’re 55. A lot of this comes from the accelerated stress response. The focus needs to be to make that stress response at least NOT detrimental.
What’s your take on using vasodilators pre-workout with a goal of hypertrophy?
There is some conflicting information. For example blood restriction training can potentially accelerate growth because it can cause a stronger catabolic response during training, which you can also take advantage of by waiting an hour after training.
Using vasodilators with the goal of hypertrophy can be counterintuitive.
As you get bigger and accumulate muscle mass, you can run into ‘temporary claudication,’ which is when muscles become so pumped and full of blood that they cut off their own blood supply. One way to circumvent this is with vasodilators. Popular ones are Viagra and Cialis.
In really high performing athletes who’ve tried this have experienced very good results and faster recovery.
Will they help you get bigger faster? Hard to say, need more research.
Is insulin sensitivity activity affected after an afternoon nap?
Afternoon naps do not disrupt the circadian rhythm from what Kiefer has seen.
What are his thoughts on dessicated thyroid?
This is the same as taking thyroid medication. You may not be helping your thyroid gland at all and may in fact be making your cells sicker.
If you are hypothyroid there may be many causes. If you train too extensively or your caloric load is too low, or you have been eating carbs for a long period of time, your problems probably stem from dysfunctional mitochondria. This needs to be addressed, whether by going ketogenic or using T3 Fuel, it needs to be addressed.
Someone who’s just beginning to work out, using Carb Nite for fat loss, is it possible to mimic Carb Shock if they weren’t able to get the product?
Carb Nite is powerfully effective, and if you’re just trying to lose fat, just doing Carb Nite is the best bet for that. Carb Shock will accelerate the results, but there’s nothing else you can do to mimic the effects of Carb Shock.
If you’re overweight, he would recommend using Carb Shock once a week. You really want to focus on getting that weight down. You will recover effectively post training because you already have excess body fat.
Can I get results as a female having some carbs with my lunch?
This is a loaded question and really depends on your ability to tolerate carbs.
He’s seen examples of people who are using Carb Nite and every once in a while have carbs with their lunch, and it doesn’t seem to derail the effects at all or make a difference. This is very limited and very different from eating carbs every day at lunch.
Is it possible to use vitamin C as a cortisol bocker post workout?
You wouldn’t want to do this. High levels of vitamin C have been shown to limit training gains because it is very anti-oxidative. We need a strong reactive oxidative species response from training to get a maximal response from training. This is one thing we’re trying to achieve.
We need these reactive oxygen species to get the greatest response from training. Taking things like heavy amounts of vitamin C have been shown to slow the response from training.
As far as trying to mitigate the effects of cortisol after training, they’ve done studies to look at which hormonal surges caused by training are the most important to gauge the results of training, and the cortisol is THE MOST IMPORTANT. We don’t want to limit this. It’s a hormetic response. Cortisol is only scary if you’re constantly stressed and you’re eating carbs all the time.
Cortisol is a powerful hormone and should not be villified. It just needs to be understood.
Do not worry about blocking cortisol post training. You need it.
Has anyone have difficulty with results on CNS seen better results when adding Carb Shock?
The difficulty he’s seen with Carb Nite specifically with training, is limiting gains. They’ve had to ratchet down training sessions and volumes during the week. Carb Shock allows training at a higher volume while maintaining recovery and health when training a lot.
How low to drive pre CBL? How high to drive insulin post CBL?
There’s only so much you can do to drive insulin down. Blood sugar levels can be hard to control without exercise. Insulin levels are going to fall to the nadir regardless of what you do. It’s hard to lower insulin levels… one way to actually drive insulin levels lower is to ingest pure fructose. He doesn’t recommend doing this though.
How high should you drive it? Big insulin spikes last the shortest amount of time which is advantageous. This also helps to increase the health of Beta Cells if you’re using these spikes from time to time.
Kiefer doesn’t know how high, but thinks as high as your body is capable of producing.
What seems to injure beta cells is constant output of insulin over a long period of time. They just don’t have this capacity. This takes energy, and essentially beta cells need to recover. You give them the opportunity to work at their peak and then rest.
This is one of the places where you get caught up in the minutiae and it’s not worth worrying about. Most people have problems with CNS and CBL because they overthink all of it. The more you focus on the minutia, the harder the diet gets. The science behind the diets is very complex.
The only time he would even consider the minutia is when getting someone ready for a sporting event.
Do we still need leucine in our shake if we’re taking Carb Shock?
No. Just use Carb Shock.
Protein back-loading, is it necessary?
No, it is not necessary. There are certain instances where you want to hold your protein loads off until later, but it’s not necessary.
Some people who’ve hit plateaus have protein back-loaded… but what’s basically going is that they were eating too much protein. The protein to fat ratio is too low. When they protein back-load they inadvertently shift that ratio earlier in the day to more fat and less protein. This is the key component here.
Fiber timing around training?
He never really worries about fiber supplementation. He would stay away from it post training because it will slow down the absorption of nutrients.
With the 3-6 pm training scenario after taking Carb Shock should I start back-loading immediately?
How should T3 Fuel be used in conjunction with Carb Nite? Could it be used to extend the ultra low carb period?
He asks, why you would want to do this? The insulin surge is not just about thyroid regulation. There are other hormones like leptin and ghrelin that need to be regulated.
What T3 Fuel will allow is that if you are training too much or are in some sort of metabolic problem with low T3 levels, it will help to repair things at the cellular levels, so that you CAN get the correct thyroid response when you do get the carbs.
This is NOT a replacement for Carb Nites. It is there to make sure you’re running at optimal health.
This is important if you’re training. If your mitochondria are dysfunctional in some way, or your hypo or hyperthyroid, your mitochondria really need to be taken care of, because their needed for the production of ATP.
If you’re hypothyroid you can decrease the amount of ATP you’re producing which cannot be made up for with glycogen stores.
If you’re having trouble getting Carb Nite to work with only one Carb Nite a week, T3 Fuel will really help this scenario, because you might have sick mitochondria that aren’t allowing you to get the big thyroid bursts from the carb refeeds.
It’s not a replacement for a Carb Nite. You don’t want to push Carb Nites further off unless you have plateaued for a long period of time or you have excess weight.
Supplies of T3 fuel can be found at www.T3fuel.com
If you’d like to pick up Carb Shock when it come back in stock, you can pick it up here.
If you’d like to pick up Carb Nite, you can pick it up here.
and if you’d like to pick up Carb Back-Loading 1.0, you can pick it up here.