Carb Nite Solution Results After 4 Weeks

51 thoughts on “Carb Nite Solution Results After 4 Weeks”

1. What is your daily macronutrient breakdown? Are you keeping your protein high or low?

   1. Protein intake is in the range of 100-150gm
      Non fibrous carbs are less than 30 gm
      Fat Accounts for the remainder. Since I’m eating around 2000-2200 calories per day, I’d estimate around 150 gm?

      The big component to this experiment that is lacking, is that I’m not tracking and logging my food intake. I realized from before that this was the one thing I absolutely HATED doing. It was so tedious, and on days I ate out or ate something home cooked and no nutrition label was available, I’d have no clue what to put in!

      The benefit of measuring blood ketones is that it tells me that I’m at least on the right track….

2. based on the macro nutrients you posted, looks like you are not eating enough fat, you are around 62% and protein @ 27% putting your carb @ 11%. that is if you want to be ketogenic and/or nutritional ketosis. gotta keep the carbs around 5% and fat at least 70% to 75% and even 80%. again if your goal is to hit nutritional ketosis. that is why you bought a ketone meter. right ?

   art and science of low carb performance by Dr. Phinney and Dr. Volek.

   might have a conflict of interest because you are lifting weights and doing BJJ which requires a lot of glycogen replenishment. Phinney and Volek advocates about .75g protein per lb of BW and that might not be enough for the activities you are doing.

   1. Thanks for commenting!

      Ya, I know what you mean about my macros, and it was something I was thinking about, but this balance works well for me in terms of satiety. I found that when I brought my protein too low, I was starving all day long! I think regarding my fat intake, I’m probably more around the 70-75% range, I just underestimated it in my prior comment. The good thing is that on the few days leading up to my Carb Nite, my blood ketones actually confirm that I’m in the nutritional ketosis range, so I’ll probably keep my macros as is… at least for now.

      Regarding my Crossfit training, I generally try to schedule it within 1-3 days after my Carb Nite. This is something Kiefer mentions is the ideal time for high intensity exercise because it will help burn through the glycogen stores that were repleted by the Carb Nite.

      On my 2nd day of weight lifting, later on in the week, I try to do it at a slow and steady pace. So while I’m lifting weights in the 60-80% of max range, I’m doing it slow enough that my heart rate isn’t getting more than 75% max heart rate. Hopefully this won’t break down too much muscle… if my strength starts to go down noticeably, this will probably be the first thing I cut back on.

      With BJJ…. I just can’t give it up. I do my best to train lightly and focus on technique… but sometimes things do get hot and heavy, and thats just the way it goes. This will also be something I’ll have to pay attention to.

3. How are you feeling. Are your energy levels up? I just did my first CN after being low-carb for 2 years and feeling a bit run down. Thanks for posting these results.

   1. just rundown ? I’ve been low carb for long time too.

      did my 2nd week last night and it was awful. nausea and all plus bloated in the morning. and it was not even close do pigging out on carbs. 2 donuts, 1 scone, 2 scoops of ice cream, maybe 1lb of sweet potato and 1 tablespoon of condensed milk all eaten in a span of 4 hours. took a nap then woke up in a terrible stomach pain just wanted to throw up. cleared it all up with 6 caps of activated charcoal. boy thank god that works.

      2 years ago eating this much carbs should NOT be a problem, but now it was dreadful.

      i’ll try again 3rd week BUT just using clean carbs. white rice with the steak, sweet potato and other tubers like parsnips and make up the difference by chugging down 50g to 100g of organic maltodextrin I got from true nutrition.com

      1. Sounds like a good idea with using clean carbs.

         Do you have any history of lactose intolerance? Two scoops of ice cream and the condensed milk can aggravate that!

         I ate a full personal pizza a while ago (not during Carb Nite) after being gluten free for a few months, and it caused the most horrible bloating! My abdominal circumference increased by 3 inches for the 3 days following. After that experience I’ve become very wary of introducing a large gluten load.

         I’ve done ok when I slip up and eat a little gluten here and there… but I probably won’t try eating anything more in a while.

         1. no history of lactose intolerance. used to down a pint or 2 of ice cream and condensed milk is a standard ingredient on flans. can down 1/2 pie of those before. donuts well can do 1/2 a dozen of those too. the 1st CN I did have ice cream and experienced a little bloating as expected per DH BUT no stomach ache or nausea. I guess the big diff between the 2nd week and 1st week of CN was the wheat/flour on the donuts and scone.

   2. My energy levels are great. As with my original nutritional ketosis experiment, the thing that correlated most with my energy level was how much sleep I got the night before.

      My new graveyard schedule hours are really screwing with me… so if I can get at least 7 hours of sleep I feel pretty good. If I don’t then I feel horrible… and the only thing that makes it better is if I can squeeze in a nap.

      I’m not noticing any changes in energy that correlates with my ketone levels.

      I guess I do feel more energetic on the evenings of the Carb Nite. All those carbs do make my body feel a little warm… but that’s it. It doesn’t really carry over.

4. how did you register at athlete.io ? I tried BUT i’m NOT receiving a confirmation eMail. so for now I’m just lurking at the forum 🙁

   1. It automatically registered me after I bought the book from his site.

      1. ok thanx. I’m going to have to contact them about it because it did NOT do that for me.

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   1. Thanks for posting the details. Carb Nite sounds like the TNT diet (http://www.amazon.com/Mens-Health-TNT-Diet-Explosive/dp/1594869766). I borrowed the book from the local library, so only had it 3 weeks and never really executed on the diet. The author of the TNT boo, Jeff S. Volekby, collaborated with Stephen D. Phinney on “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate…” books.

      What I’ve been doing might align somewhat with Carb Nite / TNT style dieting, and it seems to work ok for me. Six days a week I get around 50gm of carbs per day, mostly from veggies. I’m too cheap to buy any more blood ketone strips, but I’ve checked and I’m usually 0.5 or so. But on one weekend day per week, I get an additional 100 to 150gm from, ehem, “maltose”. And sometimes I’ll eat out when I’m drinking that beer and add even more carbs. But it seems like keeping it to once per week has not impacted my BF% (around 8%). I’m not trying to lose any, just don’t want to gain. Might need to find that Carb Nite book and see how it compares to TNT.

      1. Sounds like you’re also doing a variation on the cyclic ketogenic diet also with a longer carb re-feed window (you have the entire day) whereas I have a 6-8 hr window per week.

         Since this is your lifestyle it seems, it’s definitely reasonable to avoid using ketone strips given their significant cost.

         I’m only using them because it’s a good way for document things objectively for me… and I’m a data geek!

         For people trying to gain John Kiefer recommends his other protocol, Carb Back Loading, which I’ve purchased but haven’t had the chance to go through yet.

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8. I know I’m coming in late But I think my input is a valid one.

   I did CN as well but I didn’t exercise, I stated at 150lbs and ended at 150lbs, and all I wanted to lose was 10 lbs. and I was at about 20% body fat.

   The reason you didn’t lose any weight was because you were not in a calorie deficit, plain and simple. To find your info go here: http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

   Your experience proves that the paleo dogma about metabolic advantage is bogus.

   So, what I did was bulk up to 170lbs and did it the right way, with a calorie deficit. After about 1 1/2 weeks now I’m down to 160 lbs, I should be down to 145lbs in about a month or so.

   You have to burn 3500 kcal to lose 1 lbs. of fat, so depending on how fast you want to lose fat you adjust the deficit.

   3500 / 7 = 500, so with a 500 kcal deficit a day you will lose 1 lbs. of fat a week, plus water weight as long as your carbs are low enough. Because with every gram of carb you eat you pull in 3 grams of water.

   With a 1000 kcal deficit a day I have lost 7 lbs. in one week.

   Since you are so active you should adjust your carbs to about 150 to 200g a day. So you should eat like this: Pro = 150g/F = 50g/C = 150g this equals 1650 kcal, eat this and you will lose weight. On days you don’t work out only eat 30g carbs or less, but always maintain a deficit. The leaner you get the slower it will go because your body is fighting back.

   Once you get to your goal weight lose 5 more pounds so when you normalize your diet with carbs again you will bloat back up around 5 lbs.

   n=1 right?, give it a try you will not be disappointed.

   Keep us updated.

   Troy

   1. “Your experience proves that the paleo dogma about metabolic advantage is bogus.”

      so based on 1 experiment you concluded that paleo is bogus. and it is all about calorie deficit.

      I’m 158 lbs about 14% BF. eats around 2300 to 2600 calories daily except on lifting days which is 2x weekly and those days I eat around 3000 calories. I don’t count calories just eat when I’m full BUT the number I cited was the count when I’m trying to figure out what my calorie counts look like.

      75% Fat, 20% Protein and 3% Carbs except 1 day a week which I CBL.

      sure extreme calorie deficit like 1650 kcal will make you lose fat for sure BUT your body is so much stress because of it also. It’s NOT all about weight loss. METABOLIC ADVANTAGE is just NOT about weight loss BUT overall health.

      1. and forgot to mention that genes, epigenetics and age plays a big role too. it influences the hormones that are involved in our metabolic engine.

      2. Thanks for the reply,

         It’s not just based on my own experience; I’m just one of many who found that a kcal deficit is the only true way to lose weight and fat. If you lose weight it’s because you were in a deficit.

         I follow the paleo diet and that’s how I lost 45 lbs. and I believe in the basic concepts of paleo for good health and longevity, which is get back to basics and eat real food, not the garbage that the US economy puts out for a profit instead of our health. I’m just not religious about paleo.
         People in other countries do not eat the garbage we have unless they move to the more western type of diet, they don’t have the issues we do and some of these countries eat a diet that are mostly carbs. They’re healthy because of what they don’t eat, but the idea that you can eat over maint. kcal’s and still lose fat/weight has been disproved by countless metabolic ward studies for decades.

         With a kcal deficit you should also do a carb refeed once a week to reset your hormones. In the OP he is doing CN that’s great it will work for him but only if he makes sure there is a kcal deficit, even if he eats above maint. kcal and it’s all protein and fat he will not lose weight or fat.

         Also when you exercise that adds to total kcal’s, so that’s why you can eat so many kcal’s and not gain weight. If you eat that many kcal’s and didn’t exercise you would gain weight.

         I agree with you in principle and I follow the paleo diet, I just don’t believe the metabolic advantage stuff, kcal’s still count. Eat the proper amounts of protein, fat and carbs and be healthy but if you want to lose fat a deficit is required.

         Using something like http://www.myfitnesspal.com/ helps keep my counting accurate.

         1. Troy,

            Thanks for your comments. I’m glad you clarified what you meant by the ‘paleo dogma.’ It prevents me from having to write out the long response I was thinking about.

            I think you’re right regarding the calorie deficit. Ultimately that was my conclusion from my prior NK experiment.

            The reported benefit of a ketogenic diet and cyclic ketogenic diet is that your appetite is suppressed enough that if you eat to satiety… you ultimately eat less than you would have with a carb rich diet.

            I’m still seeing if this works with me at least.

            The whole calorie is a calorie idea is something that I’m starting to be much less confident about, especially the neat math of 3500 kcal = 1 lb. Things are looking like they’re much more complicated with this.

            Look at this experiment by Sam Feltham, in which he spent 21 days eating 5000 kcal of low carb high fat diet…. and then he spent 21 days a few months later eating 5000 kcal of high carb low fat. The results are very telling… and really illustrate how a calorie actually isn’t just a calorie… and that the macronutrient source actually does matter.

            Here‘s a good podcast to check out by Dave Asprey about this topic.

            Let me know what you think.

            1. Sorry for the late reply,

               Like I said I’ve been paleo for a while and I fell into the trap of the magic low carb dogma until I started reading the other side, for example the following link, but your right we all have to figure out what works best for our selfs.

               http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

            2. Just wanted to say, I’m in the midst of reading the Lyle Mcdonald book, and holy cow! That book was way ahead of it’s time.

               I wish I read it a long time ago. Will have to do a review on it as soon as I’m done.

            3. Here is another one.

               http://www.lulu.com/shop/anthony-colpo/the-fat-loss-bible/paperback/product-18917399.html

         2. I also forgot to mention that each of us are doing our own n=1 experiment. What works for you may be different from what works for me and what works for sootedninja.

            The important thing is that you’ve found what works for you and that is fantastic!

            I’m glad you’ve stopped by to check out what is happening with me as I’m still trying to figure out what works best for me!

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11. I think what is completely lost in the replies here is that Keifer claims Carb Nite mainly removes FAT while sparing muscle. Possibly up to a 90/10 ratio. Cutting calories is great for weight loss, until your metabolism slows. Also, you tend to lose up to 40% of the weight as muscle when cutting calories.

    Lyle Macdonald has also written many other books, some riskier than others.

    Also what Troy has missed is the fact that his body may handle carbs 50% better than my body. Many people have insulin resistance or the beginnings of it.

    Based on the many things I have read and heard about Keto, you are eating too much protein if your only hitting .2, .3 and .7 etc. Listen to all Jimmy Moore’s podcasts to see how difficult it can be to find that right ration and eat enough fat. Drop to 80 grams and start there – but to prove the point about Keto you have to replace those kcals with fat.

    1. You may be right about the protein.

       It’s strange though that even knowing exactly what my lean body mass is from the dexa and eating 0.7-1.0 gm protein per pound of lean body mass… it’s still hard for me to get into super high ketosis.

       I just don’t feel good when I eat less than 80 gm of protein… and am hungry ALL THE TIME.

12. As a follow up: A calorie is most certainly not a calorie. As you stated there have been experiments showing eating 2000 kcals a day of FAT OVER maintenance levels does not add the weight on that mathematics says it will. Fat is not math, weight is not math. The body is constantly adjusting and hormonal issues and insulin resistance and food substrate play a HUGE role in how a calories is processed by the body.

    I wish I could still believe that everyone is the same and one process works for all. It is not the case. Colpo and those who suggest its all simply calories are very behind in their research. Figuring calories, vs. activity levels, is also extremely random. Unless your using a metabolic ward as Peter Attia has done.

    1. More and more stuff coming out to support this.

13. was it .7 per pound of lean mass or kg ?

    1. 0.7-1 gm per pound of lean.

14. So I have been on Carb Nite for three weeks, but hit a stall this whole third week. So like a typical “man” who did not the book closely, I decided to finally look at the suggested menus. Somehow I “assumed” this was a ketogenic diet. I do not think it is. I was approaching it from this keto perspective, having done a lot of research on how to eat 80% fat etc. In other words, I was flying by the seat of my pants on the eating having skimmed the book.

    1. I needed to assess the average calories they suggest. (on average)

    Conclusions: If your over 150 pounds, their menus are roughly 2070 kcals daily. You can add a good amount more for the Carb Nite day.
    I would say, without doing all the math, you are in a weekly deficit, even with Carb Nite. This is assuming you are 200-230 pounds at the start.

    2. I needed to see what food ratios were suggested (on average).

    Conclusion: I am not supposed to be eating 75-85% fat at all. If you use Cronometer and use potato, oil and steak to get ratios, it looks like the average ratios from the suggested menus are going to be 3% carbs/ 60% fats/ 37% proteins

    3. I have so little hunger now (amazingly), I have been eating 1200, 1400 and if I am lucky 1800 kcals a day. My Carb Nites have been a little overboard, so I probably do 3000-4000 that day, which would probably still leave me a bit short on kcals for the week. (This could cause a stall)

    4. This does not seem to be a ketogenic diet at all. In fact, eating 185+ grams of protein everyday, would certainly keep nearly everyone out of ketosis. I am also concerned with elevated blood sugar from the excess protein turning to sugar. I have already elevated my blood sugar while eating a lot more fat so far.
    (my goal of higher fat may have stalled me too)

    5. I understand “sometimes” eating more will boost metabolism.
    I understand eating protein causes more of the TEE in burning the protein. That being said, with probably no, to low ketosis, and a Carb Nite every seven days, coupled with nearly 40% protein, I do not even understand how the body is supposed to learn to burn fat at all?

    Conclusions: Read the book you dumba**. Don’t listen to Jimmy Moore saying he had to eat 85% fat to get to ketosis. According to Peter Attia ketosis many not even mean fat burning.

    I am not looking forward to eating more protein, although it is tough to eat 80% fat.
    I am not looking forward to jamming more calories in either.
    I am not going to just quit either. I will try and learn from this and work towards matching the book. If it fails at that point, then I can tear Keifer a new a******.

    Advice appreciated!

    1. What do you meant by stalling? By weight or by body circumference or both? I think as with ketosis, weight loss and body composition changes are nonlinear and there will be plateaus, followed by eventual losses.

       You know, I did the same thing… and skimmed through the meal plans. Just taking a sample meal plan:

       You’re right… that is a ton of protein! Almost 200 gm in some days… I don’t think I could eat that too!

       While he doesn’t come out and say it, he says things that really suggest it:

       For example – he references keto-sticks in this FAQ portion

       and the entire premise of going super low carb and eating high fat reeks of a ketogenic diet.

       and he also alludes to the keto-flu about feeling terrible during the induction period.

       My suggestion would be to keep it up for a few more weeks.. try to hit the two month mark and then reassess. If stuff still isn’t working… then consider it a learning experience and try something different.. which is essentially what I’m doing while messing with this website!

       Also you can look at my carb night results and see that I had a few weeks where my weight and body circumference stalled.

       1. Stalling on weight and BF. Slow weight loss. I was hoping this was a miracle cure to losing BF fast, or muscle gain lowering bf, so far it is not. I will stay on course.

          Carb Nite is CLEARLY based on two books by Mauro Di Pasquale.
          The Anabolic Diet and The Radical Diet. Almost a ripoff of his work, in my opinion.

          I do not feel I can get an accurate body measurement, even with a myotape.

          I am also tracking bodyfat with the scale and a handheld device as a cross reference.

          I have confirmed I am averaging about 2000 kcals a day, which is in line with the menu plan. This is a drastic calorie cut for someone starting at 224 lbs. This alone could slow metabolism (according to similar books for Lyle Mcdonald)

          However, due to the fact that hunger goes away, I will stay on this plan. Obviously, the psychological aspect of carbing up once a week is important. Although, it get’s less crazy each time. The fact is the free for all of Carb Nite seems to be self regulating as you do it more and more.

          I was trying to eat 80% fat a day. Now I see his program is more like 60% fat. So… I am upping the protein and giving up any worry about a massive ketotic state. By the morning of Carb Nite I am at or above 1.5mm on ketones, so I know it is at least partially ketotic.

          I am toying with two ideas.

          1. Upping calories some mainly in protein and or fat.
          2. The 2-3 days following Carb Nite, cutting calories way back, like 1200, to see if I can drop some weight there, then upping to 2-2300 until Carb Nite.

          So far no loss in lifting weight ability. I do a Body By Science protocol. 20 Minutes a week, one super slow set to failure across large compound movements. Your are also timed by a stop watch.

          1. Also, advice from some who have lost half their bodyweight using a ketogenic diet, has been to stop Carb Nite and stay fully ketotic long term.

          2. This looks like a great plan! The best way to figure things out is just to tinker!

             I really enjoy this dialogue! Keep me updated.

             I’m currently messing around with doing ketosis while taking resistant starches… will write a post soon.

             1. Weight nearly the same but BF% dropped another 1/2%. It seems to be working and so far I also seem to saving the muscle.

                No cardio.
                HIT weights 20 minutes a week.

                I plan to add 2-3 days of cardio a week, slow incline walking. 25 minutes, Not sugar burning, long duration cardio either.

                Mainly because I do mountain biking in the summer and I need to develop some lung capacity and mitochondria for that.

             2. Congrats man! Another 1/2 % down. slow progress is still progress… nothing to scoff at. If anything, slow progress is more lasting.

15. Following up to help others. Tonight is my fourth Carb Nite, 32 days on Carb Nite. I have crunched all my numbers. I am measuring bodyfat on 3 devices and weight on two. While my “weight loss” has been slow, it appears my “fat loss” may be slightly higher.

    I have a maximum weight variance of about 6.5 pounds, but I have a maximum fat poundage variance of 10.4 pounds. I do not believe this to be a water loss either. At the very least, it appears I have lost 6-8 pounds of FAT not WEIGHT.

    My strength training is logged and measured by stopwatch. I am not losing any strength so far, if anything I have gained some.

    It has been “simple” but not “easy”. It does take some adjusting to shop, cook and learn to eat 70-80% fat. If I eat more protein, I seem to get hunger. If I push my fat up, no hunger. I think it takes a full month for the body to really adapt.

    I am very motivated to keep going. It appears to be working great and if I can maintain this fat loss, I could be leaner than 27 years ago in this 6 month cycle.

    1. Congratulations man… seriously! I’m glad you’ve stuck to it and found it working for you! Keep it up!

       How is the blood sugar control coming along?

       1. It was averaging between 105 and 110 in weeks 1, 2 and 3.
          This seemed to be higher than before I started Carb Nite.

          However yesterday in week 4 it was 99, so I think it may be coming down again.

          After Carb Nites it goes up 30 points. I will start doing more regular checks once my glucose strips come in.

          I really think if healthy people, or people who struggle with weight tracked blood sugar from year to year, they could get information about how their diet is not working for them.

          1. resistant starch. check out freetheanimal.com

             before I started resistant starch protocol my FBG will be around 95-105 BUT after 5 weeks my FBG is around 77-82. As a matter of fact I tested it once 1 hour after a Carb Backload / Carb Nite and I was surprise to see that it did not even break 100. BTW, I’m on LCHF except on workout days. Before, even on LCHF I never saw my FBG lower than 85 and that only happens once in a while only.

             1. Yup… read through all the freetheanimal stuff. Doing about 20 gm in AM and 20 gm in PM of potato starch. Went out of town for a few days, so I took a brief hiatus.

                Should do a post on this with my results soon…

16. Late to the party! I’ve started CN, currently on day 17. Lost 7lbs in the initial 10 days, gained 3lbs from my first carb nite, lost 4lbs over the weekend following, so overall lost 8lbs in my first 14 days. I noticed that monday – Wednesday, I don’t lose any more weight or inches (carb nite is Thursday). The only thing I do differently on these days is cardio (I teach Les Mills classes for 2 hrs each day mon-wed). They are pretty hi intensity.

    My question would be, should I change my carb night to sat or sun, to quickly deplete the glycogen from the carb up? If I keep going the way I am, I’ll only lose what I gain on carb nite, meaning zero progress at all.

    Any thoughts would be great!

    1. My thought would be that it might be better to do the Carb Nite on Sunday! The reason for this is that this would leave you with full glycogen stores Monday morning, so that you can feel good and perform well when you teach your cardio classes mon through wed.

       This would also allow you to burn through the glycogen much earlier in the week, so that once thurs, fri, and sat roll around, you will be completely glycogen depleted and in full blown ketosis.

       A good idea would be to play around with this for 2 or 3 weeks and see how things go. Also don’t fall into the trap of only using the scale as a method of tracking progress. It can be a good adjunct, but not the end all be all. Try using abdominal circumference also as a way (if you’re really hard core you can use hip circumference, thigh circumference, and arm circumference).

       Let me know how things go.

       1. I’ve been keeping tabs on my waistline, 2.5″ inches gone, mainly in the first 11 days. That number is also halting as I hit these cardio days. I’ve been trying to do at least one lifting session a week, like 5×5 stronglifts but I’m still lifting quite light til my form is perfect.

          On a side note, I tend to feel nauseous on my cardio days, particularly in the evening. Hopefully the carb change will help with this too.

          I’ve got a date with hubby on Saturday night, so I planned for this to be my next carb nite. If this gives me a little boost then I think I’ll change to sunday next week.

17. Hi, I was just curious of your current CNS results since this original post was from 2013—thanks…enjoying the website

    1. Here is one of my latest updates from last year:

       http://bjjcaveman.com/2014/10/27/run-self-experiment-carb-nite-carb-back-loading/

       I’ve been working on some other stuff right now, so I haven’t been following the Carb Nite template very strictly. I’ve been doing more of a CBL type thing, but even this changes depending on what I’m working on. Right now I’m trying different things to see how they effect my cholesterol, so this really varies my diet.

       I plan to write more on this later!

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